Episode 335: John Kosner on Lessons From ESPN Digital and the NBA, Owned vs. Social, Why Sports Is Undervalued, and the Big Business of Sports Media

Watch or listen to episode 335 of the Digital and Social Media Sports Podcast, in which Neil chatted with John Kosner, investor, advisor and consultant at Kosner Media and co-author of We’re Live! Inside the BIG Business of Sports Media.

John discusses how data and editorial judgment should work together in sports media, why ESPN aimed to be synonymous with sports rather than just the sports it carried, how to keep one brand voice across platforms while tailoring the content to each, how leagues can turn casual fans into fully engaged ones, reach versus revenue for emerging leagues, how athletes and leagues can work together in the era of athlete-led media, balancing owned and operated channels with social, what separates must-have startups from nice-to-haves, the story of Grantland, why sports is still undervalued, and more.

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62 minute duration. Listen on Apple, Spotify and YouTube

 

 

Building a Content Strategy That Serves the Feed and the Brand

It’s hard out there for a content producer these days.

Content should be professional, but not too polished. It should be on-brand but also go viral. Content needs to reach the right audience, but also have broad enough appeal to accrue big numbers. Oh, and ideally the content should be conducive to cross-platform distribution and packaging, from giant billboards to tiny screens. And sometimes the best content is the B-side or behind-the-scenes, not the main hero piece. Or other times, content production is best left to creators with built-in audiences on their channels.

Did you keep up with all that? Me neither.

But such multi-faceted demands of content and campaigns are the new normal. Justin Whiting has been in the trenches for years, adapting as the aperture for content production has expanded and the definition of ‘good’ content has evolved. From early days at GoPro, when POV video was a revelation, to the onslaught of raw-feeling UGC (which also came during his GoPro tenure), to years producing content for brands like Red Bull, he has a unique perspective on what content strategy looks like for brands today. Now, from his perch as co-founder of sports creative studio north of normal, Whiting is right in the middle of this new era for content, where the answer to polished vs. raw is a singular ‘Yes.’

“I see that now very much the split between authenticity and premiumness,” said Whiting, who, after leaving GoPro, spent time as a content leader at adidas. “I see a lot, especially with a brand. You look at something like Adidas. Adidas wants to be high-end. They want their content to look amazing. You don’t want something to look like it’s made by someone who doesn’t know what they’re doing. They don’t like that style. But the authenticity, especially around an athlete or a personality, gets the views and gets people watching it and gets way more of that interaction…”

Whiting continued, describing how the need for more diverse content types and formats affects production shoots.

“Sometimes we would shoot a campaign with an athlete and say, okay, we’re going to shoot the TV spot or the global campaign, but we’re going to have someone walk around with the phone and capture some real moments with you in between.”

There’s an economic reason for such an all-angles-and-aspects production, too. The proliferation of short-form feeds, and the ability to rack up views in these environments, means there’s insatiable demand for content, where one more captured video could translate to millions more impressions. It’s an all-hands-on-deck operation now, with some shooters sporting the fancy, expensive cameras, while others, by design, record on iPhones. No shot is missed, and the hero shoot is just one aspect of the overall output.

“I remember there was one drifting video we did at one point,” said Whiting, “and we were shooting the main video, and then when we were shooting the story bits, we had a social media filmer and a drone pilot just with the driver, getting pickups and getting other social media content, getting funny little one-off videos, because we knew we put a lot into that campaign, so we wanted to get the most out of it. And we wanted to make sure we had 10 or 15 different assets that could live at different times on different platforms, but still in the same world.”

Pay close attention to the last part of what Whiting said there. Even if the packaging and platforms differ, the content should still feel cohesive. This is easier said than done, whether it’s different teams doing the editing and execution, with their own ideas, or just trying to balance adherence to ‘best practices’ and anticipating what will ‘work’ on a given platform. And some variance is expected; that’s by design. But, said Whiting, “The most important thing, I think, for a great campaign is having that through story, where a piece of content that is shot on a phone that lives on TikTok for an athlete, all the way through a TV spot, can live in the same story and feel like it’s coming from the same thread.”

A great campaign has a purpose. It carries a message, activates a brand, and is designed to reach and resonate with a specific audience. The answer to the question of ‘What’s the purpose of this content?’ is decisively NOT ‘to go viral.’ Virality, Whiting explained, is too random to chase, and having virality as a goal can often divorce a creative team’s strategy from the actual objective of a campaign.

The key is to ask the ‘why’ questions. Because there are a lot of pathways to reach certain metrics, but it’s all for naught if there’s no alignment with business and brand objectives.

“A lot of times what goes viral and what blows up with 100 million views is not what you would expect…,” said Whiting. “So what I think of when I approach these projects is really coming up with the best story for the brand that’s going to resonate with their target audience. And it’s a lot of strategy discussions in the beginning and really understanding what they’re looking for, what they need, what’s the point of making the content.”

That’s not to say the metrics don’t matter. Part of the calculus in devising brand content IS to maximize its impact, of course. Data-driven analysis in content production is as dynamic as ever — because content production nowadays is both art and science. Every element and creative decision is made with consideration and purpose, combining the creative instincts of a seasoned veteran like Whiting with what the data says about those instincts.

“It’s a bit of a give and take, and toeing the line, because you don’t want to be sitting there spending 100 hours looking at, okay, how can I get 10,000 more views?” said Whiting, whose biggest GoPro hit racked up something like 150 million views. “But also, especially on something like TikTok, you can take a very analytical approach to TikTok and look at, okay, here’s my last 25 videos. These ones performed; these ones didn’t. Why? What happened at this point? What happened at this point?”

There exists the potential for a Ship of Theseus conundrum to play out if you start manipulating content too much, however (swap out enough planks to please the algorithm, and is it still your brand?). Yes, brands want to attract awareness and attention, but it should be in a manner that enhances brand equity, not one that dilutes it. Trends and best practices aren’t mandates; they’re guiding principles that can inform brand campaigns and strategies, but the best brands aren’t subject to the whims of a capricious culture, algorithm, or edit.

Whiting invoked the thumb test as a gauge for brand fidelity. If you cover the handle or logo for a given piece of content, would the brand behind it still be identifiable? He went on to explain in more detail what he means by that, using Nike and adidas as examples, and why defining what a brand is all about is paramount.

“You can tell by the tone, you can tell by the look and the feel, the color correction, the videography,” said Whiting, who worked for big brands GoPro, adidas, and Sixt before co-founding north of normal. “Everything screams that brand, from the way it’s lit. And those are huge, well-established brands, so they’ve had years and years of amazing agencies and creatives and internal teams building that…”

“And a lot of that is just building the brand in the beginning, experimenting a bit,” he said. “Sometimes you try different things, or sometimes you come out of the door shooting and you say, okay, we’re going to be the challenger brand. We’re going to be the funny brand. We’re going to be the serious, intense brand. We’re going to be the urban brand, etc. And know that, and then build the voice around it. And when you do that authentically, and you lean into it, it performs really well.”

Whiting cited Red Bull as a shining example of a brand that’s unmistakable through its content strategy. (Whiting has worked with Red Bull in the past.) The best brands build a culture around themselves, he said, and the content they produce exists to thrive in a world where the most entertaining and engaging content wins every time. But the brand behind the content is clear. Look at a piece of Red Bull content, cover the cans and the helmets, and apply the thumb test. I have a feeling it’ll easily pass.

The path to effective brand content is coming more into focus. A method to the madness that isn’t merely beholden to metrics, but backed by actual strategy. Whiting got into the nitty-gritty, and for him, it starts with two questions.

“When we’re building that strategy out, we want to know, for each campaign, what’s the goal of this and what’s the target audience?” he explained. “And then you have to build the campaign around that. That’s partly on platform, partly on the style of content, partly on who you put in front of the camera, how you shoot it. But there’s very little content that’s going to be universal…”

“In brand content, you’re not going to hit everybody with something,” he continued. “So you really have to say, okay, what is needed in this? Who’s the one buying the product? Who are we really selling this to? Who do we need to do this? Because you could make a piece of content on TikTok that gets millions of views but doesn’t turn into a single sale if your target consumer is a 50-year-old guy and you’re targeting 12-year-olds because you know you’re going to get the numbers. So you really have to think about that.”

The content production field — heck, all business sectors — has been obsessed with best practices for years. But best practices have always been a slippery slope to sameness. And AI is the looming specter amid all of this. When AI and large language models declare what’s ‘best’ and what science (big data) says is correct, originality and creativity diminish. It wouldn’t have been best practice to create campaigns around amateurish UGC when GoPro was coming up. An AI trained on all the brand advertisements of all time likely wouldn’t realize a 30-second vignette shot between scenes of a six-figure commercial shoot could end up the real winner.

But this isn’t a rejection of AI. Whiting himself leans on it for the admin side of running a company, but made a conscious decision to keep writing his own emails rather than lose his voice. Think back on everything this piece presented. When brand creative strategy is informed by campaign goals, by asking and answering the right questions — it’s no longer a battle between chasing virality and creating value. It’s not a dichotomy of polished or raw, of this platform or that one. The answers are readily evident because the foundation is defined and everything feels connected. That’s where creativity can shine.

So, yes, it is a challenging time for content producers. But it’s an era of endless possibilities, when the permutations of packaging and platforms present an unparalleled canvas for content. It’s not easy, and it’s not supposed to be. Embrace it.


WATCH OR LISTEN TO THE FULL INTERVIEW WITH JUSTIN WHITING

CHECK OUT NORTH OF NORMAL

Agents and Chatbot Strategies in Sports

On episode 330 of the Digital and Social Media Sports Podcast, Neil chatted with Bill Bailey, Chief Revenue Officer for Satisfi Labs.

What follows are some snippets from the episode. Click Here to listen to the full episode or check it out and subscribe to the podcast via Apple or listen on Spotify or YouTube.

Episode 334: Justin Whiting of North of Normal (ex-GoPro and Adidas) on Brand Storytelling, Polish vs. Authenticity, Creator-Powered Campaigns, and Why AI Can’t Replace Creative Taste

Watch or listen to episode 334 of the Digital and Social Media Sports Podcast, in which Neil chatted with Justin Whiting, Co-Founder, North of Normal.

Justin discusses why promising a client a viral video means gambling with your reputation, how GoPro scaled athlete and fan content years before the creator economy had a name, why your content should still look like your brand with a thumb over the logo, why some of a campaign’s coolest content gets shot on a phone between takes, when a club needs an agency for spike content instead of its in-house team, why Red Bull content never feels like an ad, why AI makes authenticity more valuable in sports, why young creatives should learn the long way first, and more.

 

96 minute duration. Listen on Apple, Spotify and YouTube

 

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Where a Leading Consultant Sees Opportunity When He Looks Under the Hood of Sports Business

The business of sports is over a century old. But a mature sports business is only just starting to emerge.

Now, sports is a unique industry. Sports properties are intertwined with community, emotion, and disparate consumption habits like no other vertical. But traditional businesses have long honed precise processes, mining every nook and cranny for opportunity and planning for next quarter and next year while keeping the long-term vision in mind.

Sports businesses are now starting to do the same, while taking advantage of the unique traits and circumstances of sports organizations. Borja Sordo is on the front lines of the industry’s maturation. The fact that a leading global consulting company like Accenture has a sports practice, which Sordo leads in North America, is as clear a signal as any of the massive, heretofore latent opportunities in the sports industry. Sordo noted the paradoxical nature of the analytics movement in sports, which kicked into high gear in the early Moneyball days but has taken longer to fully manifest on the business side.

“I would argue that some of these teams have some of the most elite data and analytics teams on the planet because they’re trying to find tiny edges, a tiny edge anywhere, to be competitive,” said Sordo. “But you still see front offices and back offices that are not actually applying the same rules of engagement. Seems like a shame.”

While other businesses can focus on just their bottom line, however, sports businesses live in a unique space where their success is woven into the surrounding community, if not the city or even the state as a whole. Sports teams (including and perhaps especially minor league teams) are fulcrums within their towns. A team’s success affects not just the mood of the populace but the economy around it, with significant impact on countless businesses and people.

That unique position can be both a feature and a bug. Profit and growth maximization may well be north stars for most businesses, but sports are less black and white. At the same time, a sports team and its locale can rise together. Sordo, who was born and raised in Spain before coming to the US for business school, reflected on this distinctive union, which colors strategic planning and execution in sports.

“I think when I talk about the business, it is important to think of running the business for your bottom line, for growing the revenue. But it is also equally important to think of the business as, how do you contribute to the enrichment of the community, the enrichment of the surrounding areas, the enrichment of your fans?” said Sordo. “And I would argue that the teams that are doing the best have been reinvesting some of that capital into their communities for longer, because they understand that growing the reach of a team is more than just growing the reach of the brand. It’s growing the reach of everything that surrounds that brand.”

Sordo cited the Golden State Warriors as an example: “The Golden State Warriors have made that area more desirable. It gets more tourism, it gets more visits, it’s in a higher standing globally. And that helps the Golden State Warriors also be more desirable. So it’s a balance. It’s all about synergy.”

With such an interconnected business, it can be complex and intimidating to implement meaningful change, let alone substantial transformation. But as the old aphorism goes, ‘How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time.’ So, for Sordo and Accenture, often brought in to guide such metamorphosis, it’s a combination of identifying the simpler, instantly tangible wins, along with the larger, more long-term and ambitious opportunities.

“I have conversations with a few NBA teams right now where the focus is very much on, hey, we just want to see what AI can do for our day-to-day operations and then activate in a few kind of ideas to see how we can use it both in our operations, but also in fan engagement, for example. That’s great,” said Sordo. “A technology like AI is fairly transformational, but has to be wielded with caution. Let’s be careful here. But it is transformational. So, for a lean organization, suddenly [having] a powerful AI infrastructure that allows you to do more with less or with the same, that’s important, and that can affect your bottom line…

“Then you go kind of the other spectrum. It’s like, well, folks that have big, big developments or big redevelopments coming up, that’s a whole different story.”

Quick wins and grand visions carry different calculations. But whether you’re tweaking a daily process or scoping a multi-billion-dollar investment, every decision can have downstream effects. So every decision should be calculated, backed by consideration from all angles. Because what delivers a few more dollars today could also affect a lot more dollars in the future, and vice versa. This comes into play when planning out both major moves like stadium development or renovations and day-to-day decisions like tickets, merch, and concessions.

Consider the rise of premium inventory and experiences in sports in recent years. While suites have been part of sports venues for decades, premium has evolved well beyond the clubs and suites of years past. The importance of having ample premium seating, and the ability to create diversified premium inventory and experiences, is more appreciated than ever. Because fans across a wide range of means will pay for premium. It’s not just corporations with expense accounts, but everyday individuals, too. But teams can’t go all in on premium at the expense of opportunities to engage the down-market fans who still want to attend but will never pay for more, whether for lack of means or desire. If this is starting to sound like a complex puzzle to decipher, well, that’s kind of the point. But the rewards are well worth the effort if you can work through the complicated web of considerations.

Sordo, who fondly looks back on attending Real Madrid matches and University of Missouri football games, also pointed to the other side of that equation.

“There’s just so much potential,” he said. “And yes, [there’s] premium seating and suites. As a fan, I think it is important that we keep sports accessible. At least to me that’s important because I do think that sports belongs to all of us in that way. So I do think we need to keep it accessible.

“But if you’re building a new stadium, maybe you can find a way to maybe even make it more accessible, but also offering some more premium experiences…Because I’ll tell you, the five-year-old kid that gets to go to the NFL game and gets to see it, that might be a lifelong fan. And that lifelong fandom is worth way more than whatever you can charge for a ticket.”

It’s easy to get seduced by sizable investments or swings that can deliver exponential returns down the road. At the same time, Sordo noted, there is just as much compounding gold to mine from the seemingly smaller parts of the business. All you have to do is open your eyes and put yourself in the shoes of the fans.

None of this matters if the fan experience isn’t always front and center. A fancy suite won’t save the game day experience from a bathroom in disrepair. A mascot meet-and-greet becomes secondary after missing a quarter of the game because the line for a hot dog took forever. So, Sordo’s eye for opportunity goes beyond the spreadsheets and data to what he experiences as a fan. As an example, he cited a recent experience where the wait to go through retail and complete a purchase was something like 40 minutes. Mobile retail is a simple fix, and one that compounds.

“It’s little things that add up to a phenomenal experience and add up to a better, happier fan or customer. And from a business standpoint, you can get more throughput,” he said.

There are a million little things that can be circled for improvement, which could deliver meaningful change next month. At the same time, there are nine- and ten-figure opportunities for consideration that may not bear fruit for years. So, just like the side of the house focused on the field or court, it’s a balance of minding the next game and next season alongside identifying the prospects who will be the team’s leaders next decade. All while bearing the responsibility of a community’s welfare, both fiscally and, often, psychologically.

Sordo pointed out that this is where traditional businesses and sports commingle. Because while all businesses have short-term concerns, those often have to be balanced with longer-term goals, plans, and investments.

“I think that community engagement, that long term thinking helps your valuation be higher. But again, you have to have a plan; no business operates month to month. Every business has a short term and a long term plan. That long term might be three years, might be five. Some really blue chip companies are looking at even longer than that. But you have to have that plan and then you have to kind of act on it. And yeah, it’ll tweak, you’ll vary it, but you need to have that roadmap.”

Now, there’s one key variable that can disrupt such best-laid plans — the millions of customers, better known as ‘fans’ (short for fanatics), who will always tell you what’s on their mind, and many of them will interact with you every day. And, in the end, the majority are ride-or-die. While sports fans’ psyches are notoriously subject to the typical ebbs and flows of a season, the business can learn and adapt quickly, perhaps more than any other industry, thanks to an always-on, instantly responsive focus group of millions.

Sordo invoked a hypothetical poor app introduced by a team like the New York Knicks to make the point, explaining why other industries should be jealous of such vocal, passionate customers.

“Your lifelong Knicks fan, if you put a bad app in front of them, they’re not going to go, ‘Well, screw the Knicks. I’m not there anymore.’ They don’t care. They’re fine,” said Sordo. “They’re going to be a Knicks fan, but…they’re going to tell you loudly, ‘Hey man, that sucked.’ So you’re going to get feedback so much quicker…

“[Most other] companies don’t have that quick feedback that sports teams have access to, and [teams] really need to capitalize on that.”

But not all fans are engaged in the same way, nor do they all necessarily care about the same aspects. The modern generation of sports fans is more multifarious than any preceding one; sports fans are no longer a monolith. There are fans who show up for the fits, others who see sports through betting, some who like a related show or book, a group that just loves the merch, and countless other permutations.

That means broadening the view of sports fandom. Take the many fans who discovered Formula 1, and its plot and characters, through the prism of a Netflix show.

“I think that’s a great example to start with,” said Sordo, referencing Drive to Survive, the Netflix docuseries that has run for eight seasons since 2019. “Are you a Formula 1 fan? I don’t know; maybe you’re not, but you’re certainly a sports fan that likes Formula 1 in some capacity. Now, maybe you’re not going to every race…but you’re certainly consuming Formula 1 as a sports engagement, and the vehicle is a Netflix documentary or series about it, so in some capacity that is valuable to Formula 1. I mean, we all know that because we’ve seen what Formula 1 has done over the last six years.”

Not all fans come in through the same door. But when you have millions of fans, every seemingly minuscule movement in frequency or spend adds up very quickly. When you’re talking millions or billions of transactions, a tiny percentage can mean millions of dollars, and then multiply that over the course of several years to come and legions of lifelong fans. So, the way Sordo sees it, it’s not just about attracting new fans, but moving every fan up the ladder just a little bit more than they are today.

“I think it’s about moving the spectrum continually to the right,” he said. “If you have somebody that goes once or twice a season and you want them to come four times a season, congrats. You effectively just doubled your yield for that fan. In any other industry, you would be uncorking champagne and celebrating that win. It’s just that the sports metrics don’t align to that, so that’s not what happens. But that is a huge accomplishment in itself.”

No matter where fans are on the spectrum, any growth of the total fan base is coveted. So, when considering fan growth strategies, it’s beneficial to start by looking at each of the existing cohorts to identify which have fruit ripe for the picking.

Sordo’s roadmap starts simple: understand your core market and demographics, then find the easiest growth path. If you already get 90% of the city into your stadium, for example, “how about the adjacent areas?” he posited.

“But, digitally, if you start to think beyond that, it’s like, okay, great, who’s actually watching, and where are they watching?” he said. “Should teams, for example, own more media concepts?”

Sordo raised Heated Rivalry, the HBO Max/Crave hockey romance series, made without NHL involvement, that piqued the interest of countless potential puck fans.

“I’m sure they were not unhappy with the amount of extra traffic it drove to the NHL,” he said. “So should some of these leagues be thinking about media properties that might enhance the value of the league and the sport?”

The docuseries growth strategy has been well-chronicled and discussed: Drive to Survive and its many imitators across sports. The scripted series lever, marked by serendipitous successes like Heated Rivalry and Off Campus (Amazon Prime Video), is only just starting to emerge. Multiple NFL teams are standing up their own studios, the league has teamed with Hallmark on a run of team-centric holiday movies, and others are simply licensing their IP. Recently, the Chicago Cubs made headlines for Nine Innings to Love, a scripted series exclusive to TikTok, produced by their in-house crew.

As consumers across all cohorts and demos watch more media than ever, ideas are flowing rapidly, and concepts are constantly being tested to determine return on investment and content approaches.

All of these experiments and strategic plans aren’t made willy-nilly. There is, indeed, a method to all the madness, whether it’s a small change to a day-to-day task or a billion-dollar investment that will take decades to deliver value. Sordo doesn’t pretend to have all the answers, but it’s not about knowing with 100% certainty how things will net out. The key is to have a sound process, backed more by data than gut, to decipher where investments make sense and how to transform businesses that have thrived for over a century, despite being slower than other industries to change.

None of this is necessarily easy. Even when analytics invaded the territory of scouts, who for years relied on stopwatches, radar guns, and their own eye tests, transformation didn’t happen overnight. But now, just about every in-game decision, every trade, every free agent signing, and every forward-looking draft pick is informed by a prodigious amount of data and insight.

The on-court and on-field sides of sports are well into their Moneyball era. The business side is just getting started. And getting it right is worth billions.


WATCH OR LISTEN TO THE FULL INTERVIEW WITH BORJA SORDO

Episode 333: Borja Sordo of Accenture on Analytics Gap in Front Offices, Doubling the Casual Fan, Lessons From Emerging Leagues, and Monetizing Fans Beyond the Stadium

Watch or listen to episode 333 of the Digital and Social Media Sports Podcast, in which Neil chatted with Borja Sordo, North American Sports Practice Lead, Accenture.

Borja discusses why teams with some of the most elite analytics operations on the planet still run their front offices without the same rules of engagement, why turning a two-game fan into a four-game fan deserves champagne, whether watching Drive to Survive makes you an F1 fan, how to monetize fans who will never set foot in your stadium, why lifelong fans give teams a feedback loop most brands can only dream of, what the big leagues should learn from emerging leagues, why every experiment needs an ROI behind it, and more.

83 minute duration. Listen on Apple, Spotify and YouTube

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Episode 332: Best Of The Podcast – Texas Longhorns, Savannah Bananas, Borussia Dortmund, NIL, MLS, Sustainability, and More

Watch and listen to episode 332 of the Digital and Social Media Sports podcast, a best of, featuring parts of conversations with:

3:51: Marc Jordan | Athletes Unlimited, Teamworks/INFLCR, Texas Longhorns, University of Tampa Athletics — Full Episode

22:38: Caleb Mezzy | Grit & Glue, Baseball and Brands (newsletter) The Athletic, PhD, Neumann University — Full Episode

48:22: Aileen McManamon | 5T Sports Group, Green Sports Alliance, Vancouver Canadians, Fiat, Alfa Romeo — Full Episode

1:05:28: Savanah Alaniz | Visit Corpus Christi, Corpus Christi Sports Commission, Savannah Bananas — Full Episode

1:25:08: Harrison McIntire | SPORTFIVE, Gilt Edge Soccer Marketing — Full Episode

1:48:45: Kyle Sheldon | NAME & NUMBER, Pathway (newsletter) Chicago Fire, Seattle Sounders, D.C. United, NASCAR— Full Episode

Watch or Listen below or on Apple, Spotify and YouTube

120 minute duration. Listen on Apple, Spotify or YouTube.

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